Curse

Symbol · Oct 12, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Buffs open no interesting new possibilities.

Nerfs too minor and too haphazard to change the status quo.

Yay?

the_deSKtructor · Oct 12, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by drekmonger

Don't know how the aggression refrain change will work out -- a friendly monk could remove the condition if needed?

The condition can be removed and gets renewed whenever aggressive does.

Burton2000 · Oct 12, 2007, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Well SoD has by the looks of obs mode made it a spike only skill now so the obvious choice is to switch to RC with guardian.

But maybe I dunno could you run BL on a monk again or is RC still a better choice?

moko · Oct 12, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

How are crit & agonizing chop good now? They just got nerfed so that they're neither very good at damage compression or backup-interrupting, which combined was their entire reason for being played.

i meant to put the change to the skill was good, not as in the skill is good now. my mistake. :>

i don't see how it kills the skill though, especially not WY, with such a duration buff? gfte just means that you have to run less energy intense bar, and while AR is nerfed, i suppose less will run it, meaning your adrenaline gain is slowed, meaning the recharge hardly matters? at least that's how i see it. o.o might be completely wrong though.

Sinful Doom · Oct 12, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

GG making these threads. I'll make sure Izzy sees them before the next balance update.

Ignored once again. Do you people set around at coffee break and say "I bet they will never see this comming?"

hurric · Oct 12, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Come on!!!!! Paragon nerf is really bad. First TNTF gets nerfed for PVE. now AR gets nerfed for PVP. Why don't you guys fix FA at least but have time to nerf paras even further?
Paras need to attack fast or build extra adrenaline somehow. Why don't you just kill the class althogether? Sigh Really disappointed with para nerf as It probably going to make HA empty of paras and more sways. [sarcasm]Great Update! [/sacrasm]

Blame the Monks · Oct 12, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurric

Why don't you just kill the class althogether?

Good question. Everyone already bought NF, so now they can safely dump all the shit classes from the game, imo.

Keithark · Oct 12, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

What all the people saying Paragons got no nerf?? You all crazy....now the skill is useless DA was not a problem at all it was easy interrupt, only affected non attacking classes and 1 para couldn't keep it up always. AR on the other hand was the main source of damage dealing for Para now it is useless due to it giving you 60al....guess I will just use my SF elly until next update (unless they come to senses and take away cracked) AR was a little overpowered but would much rather see it nerfed so that you couldn't keep it up as long or something than cracked that just kills the class for me in GvG. Nerf para defence and offence and survivability(basically killed the class)..buff elly, nerf warrior, nerf derv, and sins get nothing ugh Had hoped to stop going to randoms and being always me and 3 sins in a party. Hope they really do want all the classes represented in PvP and change the Para nerfs if not there will be none in PvP (they already had killed them in PvE)

Andrew Patrick · Oct 12, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Feel free to also post your feedback on Izzy's talkpage: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...Skill_feedback

elektra_lucia · Oct 12, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

It can all be summed up in one word:

Fail.

I'd like to add that burning spirits is fail too. Sure I'm pleased there's some nerf there, but it's retarded to burn a spirit. It just sounds wrong!

hurric · Oct 12, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

problem is paras have been nerfed over and over and over again. They created a really powerful class and slowly nerfed it into coma. (metaphorically speaking) and only few good skills that almost every para should used are being nerfed into oblivian and the general population would consider paras even more useless making it even harder to find groups in pve or pvp.

BlackSephir · Oct 12, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Yay, at last! Deadly Paradox nerf and useless skilsl Buff- no more lame Wastrel's Collapse ;DD

Oh, wait.

...
Shit.

Seamus Finn · Oct 12, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

AR on the other hand was the main source of damage dealing for Para now it is useless due to it giving you 60al....

A pvp paragon build will commonly have the following armor:
80 base armor
16 armor from a shield
+10 armor while under the effects of a shout
+17(i think?) armor from watch yourself spam
+24 armor vs. piercing (occassionally) from shields up

So basically AR is countering your watch yourself. You still have huge armor and even if you don't like the armor nerf just run frenzy and a cancel stance. You will attack even faster. I don't think the changes are terrible, but I think the meta is on the verge of changing anyhow.

hurric · Oct 12, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

^ so basically no point in bringing AR and Watch yourself because they cancel each other out. They could've reduced chance of critical or attack speed instead of this constant cracked armor (failed) solution.

Thomas.knbk · Oct 12, 2007, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Nice nerfs to Ward Against Melee, Mantra of Recovery, and Agressive Refrain. Yes, that is a nice nerf. The CA is reapplied every time AR is reapplied, so that's quite often. Plus paragons can't spam WY/GFTE for infinite energy anymore. Still, it should've just been a permanent -24

Nerf to Shield of Deflection fails. Signet of Illusion is nice now. Ineptitude looks nice but probably won't see any real use. Shield of Regeneration nerf is pretty big actually. The recharge is almost what it was back in proph now. It's going to be pretty hard to keep two archers alive with this. Time for a new flagger template?
Argonorongorodorongor's gaze needs to be hit harder plx.

I'm quite disappointed in the absence of nerfs for Melandru and Deadly Paradox.

Ensign · Oct 12, 2007, 08:43 PM // 20:43

The changes from this list that actually matter:

Shield of Deflection, Shield of Regeneration: huge hit to each of these skills, SoD's recharge is barely fast enough sometimes and SoR was on the way out anyway. Expect the loss of big prots like these to have the biggest effect on this update.

Ward Against Melee: Only really viable on an Elementalist primary now; no more Mes/Ele fast cast Wards.

Aggressive Refrain: You can spike Paragons now and not be laughed at.

"Watch Yourself!", "Go for the Eyes!": Still very usable, the it just compresses your energy a bit. You might see one adrenal attack replace one energy attack.

Agonizing Chop, Critical Chop: These might be marginal now, but did good things to break up 321spike potential.

Conjure: They're still good, though perhaps not as ubiquitous as before.

In general I see this update reinforcing the current meta builds and killing off some of the variation; we'll see how much of a difference the big prot nerf makes.

Shuuda · Oct 12, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

i think the Cracked Armor was quite an unexpected but nice solution to Paragons.

Your the first person to be so calm about that, and I agree with you, everyone else seems to be saying it's a huge nerf, but I think they got of very lightly with that skill, lowing the IAS would have been more drastic.

Mesmers FTW!!!! Buff us up to heaven!!!!

TheOneMephisto · Oct 12, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

I actually don't think that the nerf to SoD is THAT bad. Of course it isn't quite what some of us wanted, but the new SoD is hurt a lot more by target switching and you can open up SoD/free opportunities by using fake spikes and such.

Otherwise, I agree with the general consensus. Ward, MoR, AR are pretty good nerfs. Dom mesmers are going to be a lot stronger with upped interrupts and surge is going to be the thing (along with helping to kill NPC balls are VoD more). WY/GFTE are pretty much killed, so paragons' having infinite energy is hopefully hit. Rest of the stuff is kinda minor, but I wonder is SoR flaggers are still going to be viable.

I think that ineptitude/clumsiness mesmers might actually be pretty strong now though, as long as you have the energy to power them out. Using power drain and/or glyph to power out ineptitude and clumsiness and you have someone that can annoy a lot of melee, especially on slower attacking weapons like scythes, and can also be a viable character in splits (along with the new drain enchant, which could be useful on a split-minded mesmer, though ether feast might be better).

Shuuda · Oct 12, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

I actually don't think that the nerf to SoD is THAT bad. Of course it isn't quite what some of us wanted, but the new SoD is hurt a lot more by target switching and you can open up SoD/free opportunities by using fake spikes and such.

Also agreed, SoD is less energy intensive now, so I might be able to get Glyph of Broken energy off my bar when I play it.

kvndoom · Oct 12, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Andorogon's Gays got an almost meaningless slap to the wrist. I'll have to roll a Me/N to see just how much damage I can dish out before I run out of energy. I bet it's a meaningless nerf for the way the skill gets abused.

No Deadly Paradox nerf. I'm speechless. Assassins are a class built around cheapness, and it doesn't seem like that's ever going to change.

Mesmers are really looking good, even though I don't play one often. I can see Sig of Midnight / Ineptitude getting some real use in 4v4. Nice, nice E-Surge buff too.